Rui De Sousa Stayton on the mental health crisis in young men and how rowing helped him through a family tragedy

*Trigger warning * this episode contains discussion of mental health problems and suicide.

This is by far the most significant episode I've broadcast to date. Not because my guest is a household name - in fact you probably haven't heard of him. Nor because he's had a stellar career - he's a 17-year-old school student (although he has wisdom and insight way beyond his years). No, the reason why this episode matters is because it addresses one of the most worrying problems facing our society - mental health problems amongst young people and teenage suicide.

In April 2019, Rui's brother, JJ, took his own life. He was 19 years old. Since then Rui has raised many thousands of pounds for the mental health charity, Mind. In this interview we talk about:

• Lockdown life and what it's like doing school from home
• JJ - who he was, his character and interests and how Rui likes to remember him
• JJ's relaxed approach to rowing and the joy of paddling for the sake of paddling
• Being Captain of Boats
• How and when things went wrong for JJ
• The aftermath of JJ's death and how rowing (and music) helped Rui through
• The fundraising Rui has done
• What schools and universities could do better to support troubled students
• The importance of talking about our feelings
• What we can do for loved ones if we're concerned
• Why anyone struggling with their mental health shouldn't suffer alone
• Rui's hopes for the summer of 2021 and his quest for the seven seat (#RuifortheSevenSeat)

Resources mentioned on the show

The fundraising page set up by Rui's family in memory of JJ is here.

You can find out more about Time to Talk Day here.

Rowing Together for Healthy Minds is most active on Instagram, here.

Check out the mental health charity, Mind, for all sorts of resources and support.

The number for the Samaritans is 116 123 (it's free, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year). They also have a self-help app where you can keep track of how you're feeling, and get recommendations for things you can do to help yourself cope, feel better and stay safe in a crisis.

Transcript

Patricia Carswell: 0:07

This is Girl on the River, the Podcast. Whole crew, come forward to row. Hello, and welcome back to Girl on the River, the Podcast for Episode 11. Now this week, I think we should all be giving ourselves a massive pat on the back just for getting through January. Finally, the nights are getting a little bit shorter, the days are getting a little bit longer. And I hope you're feeling that there's light at the end of the tunnel. Now tomorrow, the fourth of February, is Time to Talk Day, which is all about getting the nation talking about mental health. And this year more than any other I think it's absolutely essential that we are as open as we can be about mental health issues and finally banish the stigma that I'm afraid still surrounds mental health. It's because of Time to Talk Day that I have chosen this week for my latest guest. Rui De Sousa Stayton is my youngest guest so far at 17 years of age. But he has wisdom well beyond his year. Rui is a member of Monmouth Rowing Club and is Captain of Boats at Monmouth School for Boys. But although we do chat about rowing, that is not sadly the main reason for having him on the podcast. In April 2019 Rui's brother JJ took his own life. Since then Rui has raised many 1000s of pounds for the mental health charity Mind via the campaign Rowing Together for Healthy Minds. Before we begin, I should warn listeners just so you're aware in advance that we talk about mental health problems and teenage suicide during the interview. I'll put details of Rui's fundraising page and links to Time to Talk, Mind, Rowing Together for Healthy Minds and the Samaritans in the show notes which you can find on my website or wherever you get your podcast. And now I'm extremely proud to introduce you to Rui. Welcome to the podcast.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 2:19

Well, thanks so much for having me. Thank you.

Patricia Carswell: 2:22

Well, it's an absolute pleasure. And it's always nice to have a fellow member of Monmouth Rowing Club on the podcast, flying the flag for Monmouth. But we are talking at the most bizarre time when we are mid lockdown, mid pandemic, and you are having to do your schoolwork online. So how is that going?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 2:44

Well, obviously it's not the most enjoyable time, is it, for everyone. But my school.... I'm very lucky to be at a school where they are giving me everything I need. I'm having a pretty much exactly normal school day, except just online.

Patricia Carswell: 2:57

Do you get any of the the fun that you have a class because when I look back to school, you know, the whole fun of it was having someone sitting next to you, kind of drawing something silly on your file or, you know, nudging you and whispering. How does that happen online? Does it still happen, though?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 3:15

Yeah, that's where the difficulty comes, I suppose because you can't have that interaction they usually do in person. But of course we set our phones, don't we? So we always are still talking to each other separately from the teachers' call

Patricia Carswell: 3:29

So that's how it that's how it goes! Brilliant. I'm so glad to hear that. What happens if someone's really naughty, I mean, obviously, you're in sixth form, so it's not quite the same. But I did get sent out of class in sixth form for giggling too much. So yeah. What happens if someone misbehaves?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 3:49

Oh, well, I think the classic example is Teams backgrounds and Zoom backgrounds. You can add a photo and you can put... so I think the best example I have was we were studying in English once, we were studying a really, we were studying A Doll's House. And we're talking about the themes around societal expectations and stuff. It's a really serious topic. And suddenly, one of us, one of the people in my class decided to change their background to Minecraft, and we were all really serious. And suddenly the teacher started laughing. And just we were really confused because we were looking at our text instead of the screens. And we ,were really confused but I suppose it can't really be done. You just sort of got to have a laugh about it really?

Patricia Carswell: 4:33

Well, I'm glad that you're still managing to have some fun with it all because I do think the challenges for people of your generation are really, it's something that none no one of my generation has ever experienced. And we all really feel for you. Now, I have known your family - I was trying to work it out - I think it's 14 years since you were a little nipper, coming with your mum to pick your brother up in the playground. And we are here because of your older brother, James, also known as JJ, who was in my younger son's class at school. And my memories of him are of this little smiley boy appearing, I used to find it hard to actually distinguish him. And my... this is a terrible thing to admit as a mother, but he and Will, my son, had a very sort of similar shape of face, and they were about the same height. And when they came running out of school, I couldn't always initially tell them apart from a distance. And the only way I could tell them apart was that JJ would have his shirt tucked in and Will would have his shirt tucked out. That's my first memory. But tell me a little bit about him and his personality. What he was like?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 5:58

Yes, so... he was... at the moment he was studying history in London. And history was his ultimate aim. He loved the subject, it was all he cared about really. And from a very young age he ... as I said, he loved it. And he would always be reading Biggles or books on the Russian Revolution, or just something to do with history. And if that's Airfix kits, or Lego, or he'd always been involved in it. And he wasn't very academically strong, he never really got very good exam results. But no matter what he would, he'd always just get the enjoyment out of that one subject. And I think that's great, I think, each to their own kind of thing. And I remember going to Hendon RAF Museum in London when we were visiting relatives, and we'd be going around the exhibit of the planes and stuff. And he'd be running off and telling us all about that plane and running off and telling us all about that plane. And it almost be like having our own tour guide. It was... you didn't have to read that little plaque at the bottom of the of the plane because he would tell us all about it. And he loved it. That's... he... yeah, he thrived off it.

Patricia Carswell: 7:06

And what sort of brother was he?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 7:09

Well, at a very young... because he's four years older than me, so obviously, there was a bit of difference there. And my sister who's six years older than me, they were much closer, and I sort of came along at the end, really. So I was the... I was the imposter. But as I was growing up through senior school, I sort of started delving into music and rowing. And he was sort of on the ending of school. So we weren't really that close. But I do remember much younger, when I was, I was still a little fat blob on the floor, that we were close. We always used to do LEGO sets example and we'd always... we'd be playing around with my sister as well.

Patricia Carswell: 7:45

What's your, what's your fondest memory of him?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 7:51

I think it's got to be... we used to, in another room from here, we used to live in a bunk bed. He'd be on the top, and I'll be on the bottom. And just to the left of that we had this big, like Lego collection, and we'd spend like, I don't know, this is when I was eight and he was, whatever, 12, and we'd spend literally hours in the evening just making Lego together. But I always remember I'd get really tired and I'd go to sleep, but I'd wake up about a few hours later and he'd still be there making it. I suppose it was just... when I was living with him above me and me below we were very close. We were very close. We were both very young. But yeah.

Patricia Carswell: 8:28

It was interesting because I remember talking to Will about him and he said that of everyone he was at school with, JJ was the one person that nobody had a bad word to say about - he was just friends with everybody. He was kind of a really good guy and he was he was head boy, wasn't he, at prep school?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 8:48

Yes much to my... he got head boy and I didn't! No... yeah, he was head boy and he actually opened the... he was head boy when the new Grange opened which is brilliant. But he loved it... he loved that that side of it and... I don't really remember that much time really because I was so young at that point. But I do remember him being head boy and me thinking you know that's what I want to be. I only got deputy, but... yeah, I'm not sad about that at all. I promise you!

Patricia Carswell: 9:18

You're not holding that grudge!

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 9:20

No, not at all!

Patricia Carswell: 9:22

And he did dabble in rowing, is that right?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 9:25

Yes. Yeah, he ... well, he was a rower much longer, earlier before I was. He started out as wanting to get fit He would go on the runs, etc, and the ergs. But he wasn't... he didn't want to jump in the competitive side... he, all he wanted to do was get out in a single, get on the water in the summer and just enjoy that, have have a bit of fun. And I think that's what he did, really.

Patricia Carswell: 9:46

I think there's a lot to be said for that.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 9:48

Oh, there is nothing better than being in a boat with your mates, or even being in a boat by yourself. And sitting on the river in the sun, especially in the Wye valley. There's nothing, there's nothing more beautiful, is there, really?

Patricia Carswell: 9:59

I think... I have this sort of idea that when I get to the point where I don't want to compete anymore, I'm going to treat rowing as a sort of weekly picnic. And I've got my spot lined up. You know, when you get up to the cottages, there's that tree that everyone gets stuck in at some point. Anyone who's ever been to Monmouth Head has probably got stuck in that tree. We've all we've all hit it. And I think you could get deliberately caught in that tree and have a picnic. And that would be, that would be the dream.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 10:28

Well, funnily enough you say that, because I do remember him telling me a story of a similar place just below the church - actually, there's lots of trees there... and I remember...

Patricia Carswell: 10:37

Yeah, been stuck there!

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 10:38

We all have! I remember him saying he would just sort of barge his way in a single into the, into the bank, sort of hold on to a tree, just lie back in the boat, I know, capsizing, et cetera, but lie back in the boat and just chill for half an hour, say, which I'm sure is not very health and safety.

Patricia Carswell: 10:56

So did that kind of inspire you to get into rowing? Was it kind of following in his footsteps?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 11:02

Well, funnily enough, when he was rowing, I was... rugby was my life. I'd, been playing since I was six. And I could think, no, rowing is awful, why would I want to do that? That's just sitting in boats with some people wearing tight clothing. But no, and I broke various bones and stuff. And I eventually thought, you know, let's give it give it a crack. I want to get fit. Let's give it a crack. And I never turned back since. By then my brother, I think had left school. But yeah, he had, but I thought give it a go. And I'm still here.

Patricia Carswell: 11:33

And I think you've got more of the competitive spirit.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 11:36

Yeah, yeah. I, I love competing. And I've always been much more competitive than him. I've I've been I've been rowing now for 5, 6 years. And I've loved racing... racing hasn't exactly gone my way most of the time. But still doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

Patricia Carswell: 11:55

And am I right in thinking you are Captain of Boats this year?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 11:58

Yes. Yeah. I don't know why. But I've been chosen to be Captain of Boats, which is brilliant. I love it. It's a bit more of a leadership role, I suppose. Although none of my friends listen to me anyway.

Patricia Carswell: 12:09

I'm sure that's not true.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 12:11

No, it's brilliant. We, I love going in and being a captain, it sort of allows you to have a bit more of a perspective on the rowing squad and who's chosen for the boats? And just gives you a bit more bit more viewpoint, I suppose.

Patricia Carswell: 12:25

And do you feel a kind of pressure to lead the way when it comes to training and keeping your fitness going in lockdown?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 12:33

Yeah, well, Well, firstly, there's many more boys in the club that are physically better than me - bigger ergs, bigger weights. I'm not saying that I'm the best by any standard. But yeah, I suppose we've we always have like weekly Teams calls with the squad and the coaches. And we're always looking for new ways to enhance training, if that's just a sit up challenge on a Saturday or if that's a Zoomergo, which we've just delved into after, after reading your tweets, I thought why the hell not, give it a crack. And I love them. I joined Sir Matthew Pinsent's Zoomergo a few days ago with a few of us. And it's just, yeah, just delving things up a bit when, in times where it's all a bit confusing, just doing something bit different together, I think is the key.

Patricia Carswell: 13:18

Yeah, because I think the the lack of, sort of, actual physical time together is one of the biggest challenges at the moment, isn't it?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 13:27

Yeah. I find especially during school, when so much is changing from having exams to not having exams, to leaving school, all these different changing... I think rowing is the one thing that's just kept the same for me. I know that I'm going to go down to the rowing club, I'm going to clamber on an erg and it's going to hurt like hell. But I can still do that every week. And I think that's something really important for the squad as a whole. And that whole social aspect around training and pushing yourself to the absolute limit is brilliant. I love that. I hate it. I love it.

Patricia Carswell: 14:01

Yeah, I think we can all relate to that feeling. Love hate. So, going back to JJ, he went off to University of London, it was Queen Mary and he was studying history. At what point did you become aware that something wasn't quite right.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 14:22

Well, it was my mum actually. She was... when my brother was in London, I wasn't really keeping that close contact with him,as you do when you're a sixteen year old boy with your 20 year old brother, but we'd sort of had a lack of communication from my family to him. He came back for Christmas and after Christmas... I didn't see him again after Christmas. But my mum started sending messages to university, being like, 'Something's off here. Can you sort of let us know if anything's wrong?'And every single time the university said,'No, we're not allowed to tell you anything because of student university regulations around information'. And that I think was the most crucial, devastating thing around what happened to my brother was, if the university had told my mum in her countless emails that something was wrong, then we'd have gone straight up to London picked him up and brought him straight back. And we probably wouldn't be here now. But yeah, it was sort of a few years in the running, he wasn't... he didn't really enjoy school, he didn't get great A level results or GCSE results. But he... I don't know - when he went to university sort of started enjoying all these things and experiencing all these things that he never experienced until University. And so we thought, Oh, that's great. He's experiencing those things, he's going to go through a lot, but like we all do. But obviously things got too much for him. And he couldn't deal with it. And eventually, it didn't didn't turn out very well.

Patricia Carswell: 15:54

So it was April 2019 - so coming up for two years ago, he took his own life. And I can't imagine what that must have been like for you as a family. What kept you going through those times?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 16:13

Well, yeah, it's, it's an interesting one, actually. Because for me, my two loves in life is music and rowing. Those are the two things I'm good at. I'm not good at academic stuff at all, to be honest. But the only thing I can describe actually was on the day of JJ's funeral, about four o'clock, I think, we had a training session in the eight. And I thought to myself, 'Of course, I'm going go training, why wouldn't I go training, like, I can't let my teammates down'. And we had a race the next week, actually. And so I remember running down the street in my suit, and taking off my tie because I was worried... and I was taking off my tie, taking off my blazer, because I was worried I was going to be late. And I remember getting down to the Boat Club and everyone thinking, Why are you here? And I was like, Why wouldn't I be here? It's rowing, it's training. But you got to continue, don't you? And I think from playing my drum kit and hitting those drums as hard as I can, and pulling that chain as hard as I can on the erg... that's my life.

Patricia Carswell: 17:13

So you actually did go out in the boat that day? I had no idea because everyone was still back there. Wow.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 17:23

I sort of snuck off quite quickly, really. And yeah, I had to go. I had... my coaches obviously told me, Rui, don't come - of course you don't have to come, obviously. But I thought why the hell not - like, it's training. It's my mates. Why wouldn't I want to be in a boat on the water in the summer in the Wye valley?

Patricia Carswell: 17:39

And that's really been your therapy?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 17:41

Yeah, I don't really need much more than... I love playing live and concerts. That's what I want do with my life. I love that side. But going out with your best mates in a boat. Come on. That's, it's brilliant. I love it.

Patricia Carswell: 17:56

And that day- earlier on that day, at the funeral, I remember you made a vow that you would do everything you could to make sure that no one else in JJ's position would come to that point. And I know you've been doing a lot of fundraising since then. So tell me a little bit about that.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 18:18

Yes. So we've done we've done a lot. The first thing after my brother's death in the summer was one of my brother's mates texted me and said, I'm thinking of doing 150 kilometres in a coxless four on the river Wye in the summe.? Do you want to join me? And I thought, yeah, it'll be fine. It'll be good. It'll be fun. Little did I know a few hours into it... it hurts. Everything was hurting. But no. I think we raised two grand, I think, something like, just from doing 150 kilometres. And it was it was brilliant. I loved it. And it was brilliant spending some... I'm always I've always been close with my brother's friends actually from school. But it was good spending some extra time with him. And I still do keep in contact with them. But since then, we've done charity concerts, we've done charity cycles. Someone did a sponsored marathon, not me. And there's been - we;; Monmouth Rowing Club have been brilliant. Monmouth Rowing Club, chose mine to be their charity choice last year. Obviouslyit didn't go exactly to plan because of COVID. But we raised... I can't remember how much but it was quite a significant amount.

Patricia Carswell: 19:25

I think it was about 6000 in the end, wasn't it, which is probably more than we would normally have raised sort of through the normal channels.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 19:33

And yeah, and the other thing was, I remember immediately after my brother died, one of the first things we thought was, don't let this happen to someone else. And the only thing we could possibly think of doing was creating a fundraising page. And so my sister set up a GoFundMe page and I think within three or four weeks we raised something like five, six grand and I thought,, bloody hell that's that's brilliant for a little, quite little town, Ross on Wye and Monmouth, it's... bloody hell, good on you lot, kind of thing. And so I think we're on the way to 14 or 15,000 pounds now. And the only thing we can do really is be there for people and raise awareness. That's all we can really do.

Patricia Carswell: 20:16

What do you think schools and universities should be doing, that they're not doing at the moment to support young people?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 20:24

Well, the first thing that springs to mind obviously, is if there's a child who's obviously at risk, and who's not turning up to lectures, has quit his first year of university, with the family not knowing a thing, and is obviously not sending in work deadlines have told the university that they're struggling with mental health. There should be a line where the parents are told, no matter if they're over the age of 18. There should be a line that where it says okay, now this is this is genuinely serious. Someone needs to be told about this.

Patricia Carswell: 20:57

And that was that was the case with with JJ - he actually stopped turning up altogether?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 21:02

Yeah, he just he, yeah, he ended up stoppig. He didn't send in work. Or he kept lying and saying, I've got this bit of work, I keep correcting it, I can't send it in. There was obviously something wrong, even just someone who... I'm obviously biased, but someone away from the situation, there was something genuinely obviously wrong. And it's such a shame that the university couldn't say, okay, enough's enough. I'm sending this email, calling this person. And all of this could have been stopped.

Patricia Carswell: 21:32

Yeah, cos there's this sort of strange cut-off point. You know, when my son was at Sixth Form college, he was 19 by the time he left. But even though he was over 18, if he didn't show up one morning, which happened occasionally, we would get a call straight away. And then somehow, there's supposed to be some magic procedure that happens over the course of the summer, after they leave where they go from being someone whose parents are called if they don't show up for half an hour, and someone who is completely independent and has... and there's no line of contact, that seems a very arbitrary cut-off point.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 22:11

Yeah, I think the biggest issue is that there's a massive, massive difference between sixth form at school or college to university. It's such a massive... you're living by yourself, you're cooking for yourself, you're independently studying. And you're meant to just turn into an adult overnight. And obviously, speaking from personal opinion, I want it - I can't wait to get out there and go to new places. But for him, he just wasn't in... he wasn't the right person to do that. He lived a very sheltered life during school. And it was only towards the latter stages, he went on a month long expedition to India with the school which he absolutely loved. But he was still, he was still a very young kid, really. And yeah, it was the jump between the two places that were just, it was too big.

Patricia Carswell: 23:00

And did he find it difficult to open up and talk about his feelings?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 23:05

Well, for me, I never really spoke to him, unfortunately - I regret it immensely, really. I only spoke to him on not on regular occasions. But I suppose so, there's this massive, massive stigma around mental health in men and young men, especially that men are masculine, men can conquer the world by themselves. And it's just not the case, is it? It's absolutely crazy. All it takes is a tiny little conversation that can spark a series of events, which can help you so much. And it's something that's just, especially during this COVID pandemic stuff, it's really brought to light because there's so many young men who have been left alone by themselves and they can't get the help they needed. And it's a really, really sad thing to say, but suicide rates are going up and up and up. I remember, it was on the BBC News recently that there was a survey gone into the boys between the age of 18 and 29. And the suicide thoughts in those boys had increased from 12.5% to 14%. Just during this pandemic, and that is a just a crazy figure. I think it's that's it- that's a lot just during these five months, so yea...,

Patricia Carswell: 24:19

Yeah, my son, Will, was saying that at University where he is at the moment, you know, he has friends who have never suffered from mental health problems before but who are really struggling now. So how is it at school - you're at a boys school? Are you finding that people are finding it more difficult than usual?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 24:40

Yeah, well, not just us - I think it's around the country, really. But it's not nice sitting in front of your laptop all day every day listening to people talk to you overline about about a subject - it's not fun, is it? But for me, personally, and for my school, they're very good at involving people and getting people to, you know, send in a recording of them singing a song they've done or writing a poem, or just really simple, stupid things that just add that extra little bit of bit of help, I think. And I've obviously kept up with rowing training, and that's helped massively, and music - that's what... these have been my lifelines to me pretty much throughout the last few years. And I've sort of just continued them, no matter what.

Patricia Carswell: 25:23

And do you think that boys are getting any better at talking about their feelings? Or is it still an issue for people?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 25:33

Well, I think for me, and my very close mates, I think it's not an issue. I have this very, very good close knit of friends, which, if there's something bothering us, we'll just speak about it instead of letting it fester or whatever. And I think for me, personally, I think from my personal experience, there's no point bottling things up, you might as well just speak about it, deal with it. 10 minutes later, it'll be over or if it's not, it can still be resolved. But I'd like to think so. I think there's so much research, there's so many big celebrity figures, publicising, this, these these documents in the percentages of suicide rates, I think it's got to make an effect. I hope it does.

Patricia Carswell: 26:13

Yeah. And we've talked about what schools and universities should be doing. What about friends and family who are concerned about someone. What - obviously, you're not an expert, as you you were keen to emphasise to me before - but what do you think, you know, if most of us have someone we're a bit concerned about at the moment, what do you think the best thing to do is?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 26:38

I think... well, there's no, there's no, correct answer to this, but I think at the end of the day, it's being for them, if that's just having a conversation about how they're feeling or having a conversation about nothing, just having fun and having a laugh, which I think in terms of this is the most important thing. And just keeping contact, I think is the key thing. That's the issue that with me and my brother and my family was there was a lack of communication. If my brother had spoken to my mum or my dad or me or my sister, then we wouldn't be in this dilemma now. It's communication is the key, I think, to everything. Keep that communication open and everything and anything can be resolved.

Patricia Carswell: 27:19

That's really wise, actually - I think that thought, that I think people sometimes hesitate to contact someone they're worried about because they think that they've got to address the issue of their friend or loved one's mental health. But I think that's a really important thing to emphasise - that it doesn't necessarily have to be addressing that issue, just being there talking to them about anything - about what film they watched on Netflix last night, or whatever it is, just keeping those kind of communication lines open.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 27:50

Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, you've hit the nail on the head.

Patricia Carswell: 27:54

And if there was someone listening, who is struggling themselves at the moment, what message would you want to get across to them?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 28:02

Well, I think it's a very simple one - it's, you're obviously not alone. There's... my brother is by no means in any case, special. He wasn't the first person ever to be in this situation. And I think there's so many people out there to help you. From the Samaritans to Mind, there's so many 1000s and millions of people who would happily help you. All it takes is a text message to that person or a call or email. It's so simple to fix things. And it just needs you to take that leap of faith and put your trust in someone. And things will get better. It's as simple as that - they will get better.

Patricia Carswell: 28:41

I'll put links to all of those in the show notes. And I know the Samaritans also have an app now where you can kind of check in every day and just sort of, you know, log how you're feeling and they've got obviously helplines and everything like that. So looking ahead, you're sort of halfway through your academic year now, or more than halfway through now. What are you hoping for the rest of this year? Because normally, as Captain of Boats, you should be looking forward to you know, National Schools Regatta, Henley, where Monmouth has been, you know, working their way up the ladder. What are your hopes for this year?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 29:25

Well, I've got to say, because obviously my parents are going to be listening to this, academic, A levels..

Patricia Carswell: 29:30

Oh, of course!

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 29:30

Full force towards that, obviously. But rowing and music - they're my two ultimate aims. Racing - I really hope we get some racing this year and it might be a bit naive of me, but I think we will. I heard Marlow Regatta have released a tweet saying that they're planning on going ahead, which is excellent. But racing, number one, I think is the biggest thing, I think - just being to have- it's really cringey, but have a bit of fun, really have a bit of fun in the boat. And concerts. I cannot wait to be able to play live again. It's the most stressful thing in my life, but I absolutely love it. There's not a feeling like playing live. I love it. So looking forwards, A levels, that we're not sitting exams now, but we might be, I'm not sure yet. But we aren't. But we are.

Patricia Carswell: 30:15

Do you really not know at this point?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 30:17

We're not, we're not taking A-levels - that's sure. However, I know they released a statement a few days ago that they might be making schools take small mini tests or something. So it's sort of like...

Patricia Carswell: 30:29

Oh, that's so difficult not knowing!

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 30:31

It's good fun. no, but... A levels, racing and music. That's these my three things that I can't wait to do.

Patricia Carswell: 30:39

And how is this year's first eight shaping up? I appreciate you've not had much time on the water. But you have had a little. How's it looking?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 30:47

Oh, it's good. It's much better. We've got some bigger scores this year. We've got some big weights being lifted in the gym. And it's good. It's much better than it was last year, I've got to admit. I think the squad as a whole has just matured a bit, which I think - me included - and it's a very important thing, especially in schoolboy rowing. But it's coming on well. We want to get out there and show how good we are, or how bad we are, and we want to, we want to prove ourselves because Monmouth I think has always been seen as quite a small little school. And that's not really true. We've got a bit of water, we've got a boat, and we've got eight blades. What more do you need? Really, it doesn't mean you can't... I'm not saying we're going to be winning Henley, or getting a gold medal at National Schools, but it doesn't mean we can't show ourselves being all right.

Patricia Carswell: 31:36

Absolutely. Well, you know, Monmouth has... the last few years has been punching above its weight, really, hasn't it? There were some successes a couple of years ago at... what was it, National Schools?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 31:47

Yes, 2019 the first eight, they won, they won the Child Beale, which is non championship eights. And they got a bronze medal in championship coxed fours, which for Monmouth School is actually really quite good. And that was an exceptional crew. And they were a long time in the making. But we don't want to let that slide now. Now we've made that level we're very much, 'there or up'.

Patricia Carswell: 32:09

Where do you sit in the boat?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 32:11

Well, I prefer seven. And in 2020, I sat at seven. But this year, it's all still up in the air, I'm being chosen at three or seven at moment. So it's sort of... as much as my friends delight in putting me at three, and the coaches, I really hope I'm chosen to be seven.

Patricia Carswell: 32:30

I love sitting at seven - that's my... probably, well seven and bow - bow I like because no one can see you and you can see everyone so you've got all the intel - but seven is... there's something special about the seven seat, isn't there?

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 32:42

I can abuse all my friends from the seven seat without being abused myself, so yeah.

Patricia Carswell: 32:48

And you get sort of permission to whinge that everyone's rushing you.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 32:52

You don't know how much I do it. It's brilliant. I start screaming down the boat, stop bloody.... Yeah, it's brilliant. I love it. And I really hope that I'm chosen at seven because I was seven at J 16. And I was seven in 2020. Obviously, we didn't race, but I still chose myself to be seven. So we'll... hopefully, hopefully - we'll see.

Patricia Carswell: 33:10

Well, we'll put it on record here and now.- you know, shout out to the coaches, Rui for the seven seat. I'm backing you - officially backing you. And I think we can get some support on Twitter for this. I have to say, though, I think the the three seat is underestimated - as I have said before, I think it's... I don't understand why it's considered the numpty seat. I think that's unreasonable and unfair. But, but I'm with you. It's sort of... it's neither fish nor fowl. I think you want to be there at the front of the boat at the pointy end.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 33:46

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Patricia Carswell: 33:48

Brilliant. Well, Rui, thank you so much for coming on. It's a difficult subject to talk about, I know. But I so appreciate you coming on and raising awareness like this. This is going out the day before Time to Talk Day, and I will put links to everything in the show notes so people can follow up, and if anybody needs help or support, find out where it is. And I also want to say on behalf of Monmouth Rowing Club how proud we are to have you in our club. You are a brilliant ambassador for the sport. And I just want to say thank you so much.

Rui De Sousa Stayton: 34:29

Well, thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Patricia Carswell: 34:31

Wow,well I'm sure you'll agree that Rui really is a remarkable young man. And it was a real privilege to have him on the show. As Rui said, if you're struggling with your mental health at the moment, please know that you're not alone. Don't suffer in silence. speak to someone, anyone, whether that's a friend or a relative or someone at one of the mental health charities. And I've put details of some of them in the show notes. And if you're worried about someone you know, don't just wait, get in touch with them. You may be hesitating because you don't know what to say or because you feel you don't have the expertise or the knowledge to help them and that is really understandable. But honestly, as Rui said, just picking up the phone to them or dropping them a text can be a help in itself. Thank you again for listening. I've really appreciated all of your lovely feedback and your suggestions for guests. My guest next week was suggested by listeners - she is Eira Parry, who has been a coach with the GB Rowing Team and now runs High PerformancePparenting, and I think you'll really enjoy our interview. And until then, next stroke, easy oar.